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Thread: Flat Earth Sails anyone?
AlmSaturday, April 02, 2011, 5:15:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
Is anybody using those: ?

1 sq.m Pacific Action is popular in Class 1, but these FEKS look way more efficient than same size PA. Only I don't know the size of FEKS. Doesn't have to be for Class 1 - if it's good, I'll get it for my trips, size limit doesn't bother me. Sandybottom here tried it, as I recall - how big are they and how long is the mast?

The company is a one-man enterprise and there are no dealers except for one in UK. Mick is just making sails, but oh boy, they look good. On the page How To it shows possible modifications by another guy Gnarlydog, - don't confuse it with Mick's product, the Dog is just messing around with these and other similar sails and fittings.

Thread: Flat Earth Sails anyone?
TwinSpirit1Flat earth sail
Saturday, April 02, 2011, 8:53:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:


 I have been in touch with Ginni , she is the new flat earth sail dealer in SW Washington state .

 She is waiting for here first stock shipment, it will be the original 1 meter sail and the tour lite sails.

 You can contact her at info@ 


JaybirdDon't have one but...
Saturday, April 02, 2011, 9:04:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
I don't have a Flat Earth Sail, but Sandybottom and I both sailed on a trip with a few friends last Fall. Down wind the Flat Earth performance seemed similar to what I was getting with my PAS with about a 15kt wind directly behind us. The difference was when we turned off the wind she was able to sail with the FE when the PAS was useless.

I think both the PAS and the FE are nice sails. If you want a simple, dead easy to use sail, the PAS may be the way to go. If you want sail upwind the FE has the edge.
Saturday, April 02, 2011, 10:00:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
Not to argue. I don't have FEKS, but after using PA for a while I would say that PA simplicity (compared to FEKS) appears to be mostly in installation. FEKS requires 2 more points of attachment on deck.

OTH with PA, albeit it always gives me downwind boost, but efficient trim on PA it's not quite intuitive because of the straight cut and odd V-shape. Both PA "masts" are tilted, God knows which one to pull in or let out (or bring the sail down completely) and when.  Don't get me wrong, PA always helps downwind, but optimal trim is something that you shouldn't take too seriously on it :-).
FEKS is a scaled-down batwing sail (or Bermuda with flexible boom, not sure how to call it), easier to see when it's filled properly.
KiwiBirdAsk SandyBottom
Monday, April 04, 2011, 11:17:00 AM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
SandyBottom used a Flat Earth sail this EC. She loves it.

Monday, April 04, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:

I had a Spirit Sail for a couple years, but did not like it at all and eventually just gave it away.

I've used a PAS in 5 ECs including the 2006 UFC with my DreamCatcher, and I do love the PAS, especially it's simplicity of mounting it on the boat and even use.  I've been lucky to have been sponsored by PAS for all these years.

But I wanted to try something different, and I got a FEKS last Fall (Mitch at FEKS was kind enough to send me one for this years EC).  SOS helped me get it mounted as none of the existing toggles etc.. on my Explorer worked quite right.  We tried really hard, and with advice from Wizard and Crazy Russion to figure out how to mount it unstayed, but we are still working on that.  I don't really like having all stays and lines all over my kayak deck.  BUT I love using the sail.  It seems so much more versatile then my PAS, and as JayBird mentioned, side by side, I really was able to get more use out of it in more varying winds.   All the talk about this years headwinds in the EC, and really with my FEKS I did alot of sailing those first 3 days.  The only time my sail was down was crossing Sarasota Bay and the first couple hours on Tues morning in Charlotte Harbor.  I swear it almost goes upwind.

I have the small size which we measured at .83 sq meters, so I'd like to get a bigger one, that is just at 1 sq m.  So I'm not sure what Ginni Callahan will have for sale, as the new US distributor.  I have had some email communication with Ginni as she is developing a kayak sailing class which she might be testing out in Virginia in June.  There are lots of blogs and sites to figure out how to set it up, then really you just need to get out there and play with it.


FatfrankDepends on what you want.
Monday, April 04, 2011, 2:22:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
I'd get the bigger one if you are not interested in the Watertribe challenge or do not mind being out of class one.  I'd prefer one about twice as big as his smallest size.  While it is a great sail and goes upwind well, a kayak is not a sail boat with a keel or centerboard.  Most often you will be better off dropping the sail and paddling to go up wind.  

The sail is very well made.  I was unhappy with all the stays needed to set one on a narrow kayak so I set mine on a free standing mast.  The biggest objection I've heard from other paddlers is that they do not want to drill any holes in their boat.  Funny because other sailors and fishermen do this whenever they want to add equipment.

Lately, I've been working on a reef-able balanced lug rig for my kayak.  Pictures of it and the Orange sail I use most are at

AlmFlat Earth
Monday, April 04, 2011, 5:01:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
Thanks guys (and gals);
If Medium FE is 1 sq m, then Big and Big+ (double batten) would be around 1.2-1.4. Yeah, if it's not for Class 1, I agree that 1.4 sq.m is not too much for an expedition kayak under most conditions.

I read some blogs on FE-type of sails and have never seen it mounted without stays - with 5ft-6ft deck-mounted mast I doubt this is realistic. People simplified the FE by using only 2 aft stays (+ forestay), with 120 degrees angle between these 3 stays, but nobody mounted it without stays. There exist an un-stayed sail breed in NZ but they are all under 1 sq.m and the mast has to go through the deck collar into the mast-step at the hull bottom - this means it has to be taken in and out every time, which in turn means it has to be within your reach. This is the problem with any sail larger than, say, 1.6 sq.m - you need to have a removable mast and to mess with re-attaching everything every time.
Monday, April 04, 2011, 5:48:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:

That's what FatFrank meant by drilling holes.  I drill lots of holes, hydration holes, pump holes, etc.... but I don't want a hole that a mast would go into down to my hull, as I can't deal with it then when on the water, and when I don't want the sail deployed, I don't want a mast sticking up.  Since Frank paddles a sit-on-top it seems less of an issue for him.   I'm happy with how we mounted it, but we had some creative juices flowing regards how to mount on the deck without stays, too complicated to describe.


AlmDrilling holes
Monday, April 04, 2011, 9:02:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
I don't fret over drilling holes. Even when they are really big - like 1"- 1.25" hole for freestanding mast. This is more in people's minds. The only thing that is weakened is the resale value, and when kayak is old, it doesn't matter already. Some buyers are paranoid about holes, even when they are small 3/16" and filled with epoxy after PAS sail (and there is also common paranoia about cured epoxy, i.e. "nothing sticks to it").  IMO, it doesn't matter whether anything sticks to tiny 3/16" drop of cured epoxy.

Update - I've received email from Mick (FE sail maker) - creative minds never sleep.  He now has 5 sail types: Standard (aka Medium) = 1 sq.m, short-tube Standard (same size, mast is 100 mm shorter), small (under 1 sq.m, mast is 200 mm shorter), Double-Batten and Large - both are 1.25 sq.m, standard tube length.  Don't remember what is his "standard tube" - something like 135 or 140 mm (53"-55").

AlmFE mast
Monday, April 04, 2011, 9:05:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
My typo, sorry - FE mast is about 1400 mm - not 140.
Danitoupgrading to FEKS
Monday, April 04, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
If anyone is upgrading to a feks and are going to sell their PAS (and its legal for WT events) please let me know. Im looking for one.


AlmPAS for sale and deck angle thoughts
Tuesday, April 05, 2011, 4:25:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:
Danito, I didn't think of it when started this topic, but I've indeed been planning to sell my PAS. It's 1 sq.m, so it's legal for WT events.  Other than one spot where I fixed loose end of the thread with Aquaseal, I don't see anything but cosmetic wear. Contact me I'm on Pacific "wet coast", so there would be shipping cost, but not much, the whole thing weighs about 3 lbs. Don't want to hijack the topic on FE sail, just 2 things to mention. Those who have PAS, will know what I mean and correct me if I'm wrong.

1) Transfer to another deck.
When installed, PAS is fine-tuned to a certain angle of peaked deck. On flat deck of SOT it would be 180 degrees, on other kayaks (including my very typical sea kayak) - between 90 and 180 degrees. This is done with a pair of small (#8 or smaller) tapping screws at the bottom of each spar. These screws are not bearing the load of the spar (bigger 1/4" machine screw does it) - they just add extra friction.  If new deck has a different angle, there might be a problem, or it might not. 2 spars are connected with flexible webbing at the bottom, so the peak angle has some range of self-adjustment. Also, I recommend wrapping the spar bases (a.k.a. cams) with closed cell foam to prevent abrasion of the deck (blue foam from sleeping pad should be alright). The foam will absorb minor differences in peak angle. If you will still have a problem and/or want more fine-tuning, I have some ideas how to deal with this (it's better to explain with photos).

2) Ouch!...
After I removed my PAS brackets from the previous kayak, I delayed installing it on a new kayak until decided not to install, and now I can't find the brackets.  Here is the picture of missing brackets (last photo on the right). Not difficult to make. Roughly 1.25x1.25" flat piece of plastic (probably nylon), 1/8" thick, with the slot for 1" webbing and hole for #10 stainless machine screw (and there is lock-nut inside the hull). There were suggestions to make it out of stainless steel, because 1/8" plastic isn't too strong. Can be 1/8" aluminum or 1/4" HDPE as well (I can give you a piece of either material if you like).
FeksFlat earth kayak sails
Wednesday, April 06, 2011, 2:21:00 AM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:

Hi All,

ferst of I must state that I am  comershal entaty, Flat earth kayak sails. Im iterested in sume of the coments, not being involved in the Water tribe racing , love what ive read about the last everglades trip ! Im interested in what your requiaments are for sails? This year I sponsord Sandy our first ever sposord racer and curently sponsoring Stu Truman in his paddel around Australia.mostaly Australians youse sail for expoditions, size isent a consern uther than being abel to keep it upright.but being a sail maker, I do understand about size constraints for racing. In all honasty iv never resured my kayak sails, the restrants iv yoused in design are the length of mast, for when its easily stowed on the deck, you will always paddel more tha sail so its got to stow well, from the mast length I then design a shape thats going to perform well, an erear meshurment dosent enter the desigh stage.

the design breaf is simpal, We paddel an un complicated craft, so keep the sail simpal to, its got to be light (below 800G ) I like padeling a light boat, fast to get up and down , as a safty thing and not tern my kayak into enything ather than a kayak!!!

in oporation its got to be feald maintanabel and not empead my full forword stroak. when up.

I rig it with side stays , thay work, and when you get around drilling holes ther are only 5 4mm holes for the mast and a cupal for jam cleats , if the sail is of the boat thear only a small mast step and a cupal of fearleads left in place . Id be keen to see or corispond with others with diferant idears on riging masts , thers always more than one good idear, iv bort one back from a simposium last weekend that cold be a good incorporation into my suplied mast! an unstayed mast for a forword mounted sail, that can be set and retreaved from the seat in all weather wold be grate !!!

pleas let me know what watertribe kayak sailors are after, ther may be sumthing avalabel or the opertunity for a grate colaboration !

(pleas excuse my poor spelling and gramer I sufer from Dislexia , sume days its bad and others realy roten )


slow2runFEKS,Feer-able LUG Sail?
Monday, February 04, 2013, 3:05:00 PM
Category: General Comment  Keyword:

I don't know why FEKS doesn't market a wizard type of lug sail for kayaks,canoes or other small boats,or why wizard doesn't sell plans?


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